Comrades,
I had a situation that I am unable to resolve following a thorough research of the Law Book. I may have missed it but, regardless, I would like a little input from my fellow referees regarding the play.
I had a situation recently where advantage was given to the attacking side. The spot of play was approx. 15-20 meters from the try line. The advantage came from a ruck situation, I think, and the ball was passed out to the flyhalf. The flyhalf took a few steps towards midfield and took a drop kick at goal. The ball sailed wide and went out the back of the try zone. I whistled it up for a 22m drop out. I decided that the kick was taken at goal out of tactical advantage and not because of any defensive pressure. There were no defenders anywhere close to the spot of the drop kick. I used the same logic and procedures as any kick following advantage.
The coach from the attacking team reamed me a little afterwards stating that following the missed drop goal attempt, the advantage should have been awarded. To my own detriment, I cannot remember whether the advantage was a penalty advantage or a scrum advantage.
My questions are as follows:
1) Was the 22m drop the correct call? If not, why?
2) When drop kicking following a call for advantage, is there a difference in application for a scrum advantage versus a penalty advantage?
3) If there is a difference, why?
4) Is this a “gray area” kind of thing, or did I totally screw the attacking side?
The coach let it be known that he sees this situation all the time when he watches it occur in the Brumbies matches. The attacking team always gets the ball back and they do this fairly frequently. I reminded him that I do not wear green and white, and he didn’t see me on DirectTV working the World Cup matches, tongue in cheek of course.
I made a call that I thought was correct at the time. I told the coach I would research this and get back with him. I would appreciate input and possibly a concensus from my fellow referees. All comments are welcome, even if you think I buggered the attacking side. (Although I privately hope that won’t be the case.)
Cheers, Pat McCollum FRRA
Posted by Pedro at February 23, 2004 07:40 AMIn my opinion if a team in a penalty situation (advantage was called) and the attacking team under the circumstance described, attempt a drop kick for points, know that they had gained both tactical and territorial advantage.
If they make the kick they gain 3 points and will receive a kick off, for a miss which is described in the laws a 22 meter is awarded, they still have gained advantage as they will receive the drop kick from the 22.
Posted by: Richard Hessler at February 24, 2004 07:41 AMMy research of past precedent and application of eth advantage is that weather a scrum or penalty advantage is being played the side need to get an advantage.
If the side with advantage decided to just kick away possession, you woul dcome back for the scrum or penalty.
Putting my coaching cap on, if the ref tells me I have an advantage, I coach that we have, in effect a free play. Under this scenario we may try something with a higher risk factor, such as a drop goal. or high kick as we expect the play to come back if we fail.
Interesting question.
Martin
Referee
Coach
Club Pres’
South Pres’
Opinionated Englishman (for sure).
Ladies and/or Gentlemen,
Watch any international match (the guys we are trying emulate I assume) and any advantage given in the area where a possible try could be scored is almost always called back for the penalty if the team given the advantage does not in fact score a try as they know they have a probable three points on the way. Multiple times (usually northern hemisphere teams but let’s not get in to that) a conscious decision is made to drop a goal as a way of conceding any constructive attack knowing they have the easier set piece penalty kick. It really is a no brainer and there is no need to over analyze the situation. I know in Florida with so many different “instructors” at the different clinics viewpoints can get skewed but it’s pretty obvious what the appropriate decision is. I would think this applies even more so for a scrum advantage as the attacking team is consciously attempting to get three points on the advantage from an infringement from the other team again knowing they have a good attacking set piece (the scrum) to continue their push towards the opponent’s scrum line. The number of times I’ve heard on the sideline from so called senior pundits “OOOH look he kicked it away that’s enough advantage!” think how absurd this statement is kicking the ball away when the team is pressing towards the try line as a form of gaining advantage!?? It brings to mind the likes of “military intelligence” (sorry Gerry), “government organization” “alone together” “jumbo shrimp” and other oxymoronic comments.
However, now I’ve had my rave AS ALWAYS giving and interpretation of advantage is at the sole discretion of the referee we can just hope that discretion is used consistently and appropriately.
Arrogant, egotistical, one-eyed kiwi (where men are men and sheep are nervous) Professor’s opinion.
Cheers
Paul
Posted by: Dr Paul Higgs at February 24, 2004 07:43 AMPat,
In my experience I have seen most refs allow the offended team to take a drop goal attempt without losing their advantage. I believe this to be the correct course of action. I have myself applied this advantage to scrums and penalties, however, I do not know if this is correct.
The reason I believe it is correct to come back to the penalty after a missed drop goal is that a 22 meter drop out technically gives the ball back to the OFFENDING side and that leaves the OFFENDED side without the ball.
Look forward to more discussion on this,
Richard Moore
Posted by: Richard Moore at February 24, 2004 07:44 AMThis was an interesting question posed by Pat McCollum.
When is advantage over, how long do you play advantage. This is an area that you can only improve upon with experience as a referee.
In the scenario from Pat there are some questions to be asked.
1. Was a tactical advantage gained??
2. Did the team kick away their advantage??
3. If the ref brings it back to the original offence are they getting tow bites of the cherry??
I would say that they did gain tactical advantage, they chose to kick without being under any pressure & missed so they also kicked away their advantage.
If it were brought back to the first offence then they are now getting two bites of the cherry.
This is a judgment call by the referee on the day under these circumstances, it would only take a minor change in circumstances for his call to be different from the one he made.
You as the referee must decide if advantage can be played, how long it will last & if advantage has been gained or not. As you get higher up the ladder, as the games become higher level and as the skill of the players improve then how you play advantage will also change.
I am sorry to be somewhat vague on this but playing advantage is somewhat subjective. There are many variables which will influence how advantage is played on any given day.
Gerry FitzGerald
Referee Development Officer, South Rugby Referees Association
VP & RDO, Florida Rugby Referees Association
